CP/M and the ZX UNO

Discursiones en general sobre el proyecto que no tienen cabida en otro foro / General discussion for uncateorized topics about the ZX-Uno project
Vanfanel
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Re: CP/M and the ZX UNO

Mensaje por Vanfanel » 13 Nov 2017, 18:22

@desUBIKado: Yeah, that's it! :D
There are many text adventures available for CP/M in their almost-original forms! Maybe not SO historic as Uto says about the PDP-10, but almost...

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THX1138
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Re: CP/M and the ZX UNO

Mensaje por THX1138 » 13 Nov 2017, 18:43

Vanfanel escribió:@desUBIKado: Yeah, that's it! :D
There are many text adventures available for CP/M in their almost-original forms! Maybe not SO historic as Uto says about the PDP-10, but almost...
It's still quite a useful OS, I'm a big fan of it and I built a CP/M computer of my own using an Arduino DUE. There are those great text games, but also useful programming languages and applications - I believe there are still people out there who (like me) love WordStar!

I notice the thread I was pointed to was asking about the Amstrad PCW, that would be a great machine to implement. As well as CP/M, it had some great graphical games and it's wordprocessing software is supposed to be very good, there are people who still use them and have no replacement options when they die which is a shame.

(The PDP-10 would be fun, but I don't think the UNO would be a good fit. There is a cool Pi-based PDP-8 system available, complete with a 'front panel' with 'blinkenlights' and switches.)
:teclando..: :zxuno: :okidoki;

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Uto
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Re: CP/M and the ZX UNO

Mensaje por Uto » 13 Nov 2017, 18:48

I'd love to see a PCW core, although I belive I won't use it much.

About PDP-10, the challenge is how to get the ZX-Uno to fit into the original case: ;)

Imagen

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THX1138
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Re: CP/M and the ZX UNO

Mensaje por THX1138 » 13 Nov 2017, 18:54

That's a PDP-11, I think there are architectural differences between the 8, 10 and 11. I know one is 36bit! Having a mainframe at home is such a cool idea, I'm currently playing with a Pi booting straight into Hercules - and running MVS. (and still struggling to submit a 'job').
:teclando..: :zxuno: :okidoki;

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jsj
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Re: CP/M and the ZX UNO

Mensaje por jsj » 13 Nov 2017, 20:48

The resource to look for those interested in really-retro-computing is: http://simh.trailing-edge.com/

It has the simulator, software kits and, the most important, DOCUMENTATION about those old mainframes, including, of course, all PDP machines.

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THX1138
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Re: CP/M and the ZX UNO

Mensaje por THX1138 » 13 Nov 2017, 21:08

And here's the info on the PiDP-8 for those interested in PDP goodness, it actually uses a modified version of SimH as mentioned above.

http://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/pidp-8

Just a quick additional note, just as the ZX Spectrum took on a whole life of it's own in the former Soviet bloc, so did the PDP! The 'PDP on a chip' developed by DEC was cloned and used for a number of Soviet desktop computers!
:teclando..: :zxuno: :okidoki;

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jsj
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Re: CP/M and the ZX UNO

Mensaje por jsj » 14 Nov 2017, 08:47

THX1138 escribió:And here's the info on the PiDP-8 for those interested in PDP goodness, it actually uses a modified version of SimH as mentioned above.

http://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/pidp-8!
Nice!

There is a project similar, but for the Altair 8800, another mythic machine able to run CP/M: www.altairkit.com/

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jsj
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Re: CP/M and the ZX UNO

Mensaje por jsj » 14 Nov 2017, 15:49

I've booted "my" PDP-10 on SIMH and this is a (short) session with ADVENTURE (look the MAGIC MODE in action!). :enelPC:

Código: Seleccionar todo

BOOT V4(76)

BOOT>
[Loading from DSKB:SYSTEM.EXE[1,4]]

KS10 07-Oct-88
Why reload: NEW
Date: 11-14-2017
Time: 15:40
Startup option: GO
[Rebuilding the system search list from the HOM blocks]

[Rebuilding the active swapping list from the HOM blocks]

[Rebuilding the system dump list from the HOM blocks]


KS10 15:40:09 CTY system 4097
Connected to Node CENTRA(0) Line # 42
.LOGIN 1,2
.R OPR

[CCPWFD Waiting for file daemon to start]
%%TTY STOMPER - Starting
OPR>
15:40:20          -- Message from the Accounting System --
                Account validation is not required

15:40:20        -- Begin auto take file --
                File: SYS:SYSTEM.CMD[1,4]

15:40:20        -- End auto take file --
                17 lines processed

OPR>EXIT

.DAYTIME
Tuesday 14-Nov-117 15:41:33

.RUN ADVENTURE

HELLO, TIME TRAVELER. WELCOME TO ADVENTURE ON THE PDP-10.   

WELCOME TO ADVENTURE!!  WOULD YOU LIKE INSTRUCTIONS?    

NO

YOU ARE STANDING AT THE END OF A ROAD BEFORE A SMALL BRICK BUILDING.  
AROUND YOU IS A FOREST.  A SMALL STREAM FLOWS OUT OF THE BUILDING AND 
DOWN A GULLY.  

MAGIC MODE

ARE YOU A WIZARD?   

YES

PROVE IT!  SAY THE MAGIC WORD!

DWARF

THAT IS NOT WHAT I THOUGHT IT WAS.  DO YOU KNOW WHAT I THOUGHT IT WAS?

NO

XIDBL

PJHLM

OH DEAR, YOU REALLY *ARE* A WIZARD!  SORRY TO HAVE BOTHERED YOU . . . 
DO YOU WISH TO SEE THE HOURS? 
YES

         Mon - Fri:  Open all day
         Sat - Sun:  Open all day
         Holidays:   Open all day
DO YOU WISH TO CHANGE THE HOURS?   
NO
DO YOU WISH TO (RE)SCHEDULE THE NEXT HOLIDAY?
NO
Length of short game (null to leave at 30):

NEW MAGIC WORD (NULL TO LEAVE UNCHANGED):    

NEW MAGIC NUMBER (NULL TO LEAVE UNCHANGED):  

Latency for restart (null to leave at 90):

DO YOU WISH TO CHANGE THE MESSAGE OF THE DAY?
NO
OKAY.  YOU CAN SAVE THIS VERSION NOW.   

BE SURE TO SAVE YOUR CORE-IMAGE... 
CPU time 0.01   Elapsed time 3:33.25

EXIT

.RUN ADVENTURE

HELLO, TIME TRAVELER. WELCOME TO ADVENTURE ON THE PDP-10.   

WELCOME TO ADVENTURE!!  WOULD YOU LIKE INSTRUCTIONS?    

YES

SOMEWHERE NEARBY IS COLOSSAL CAVE, WHERE OTHERS HAVE FOUND FORTUNES IN
TREASURE AND GOLD, THOUGH IT IS RUMORED THAT SOME WHO ENTER ARE NEVER 
SEEN AGAIN.  MAGIC IS SAID TO WORK IN THE CAVE.  I WILL BE YOUR EYES  
AND HANDS.  DIRECT ME WITH COMMANDS OF 1 OR 2 WORDS.  I SHOULD WARN   
YOU THAT I LOOK AT ONLY THE FIRST FIVE LETTERS OF EACH WORD, SO YOU'LL
HAVE TO ENTER "NORTHEAST" AS "NE" TO DISTINGUISH IT FROM "NORTH".
(SHOULD YOU GET STUCK, TYPE "HELP" FOR SOME GENERAL HINTS.  FOR INFOR-
MATION ON HOW TO END YOUR ADVENTURE, ETC., TYPE "INFO".)    
- - -
THIS PROGRAM WAS ORIGINALLY DEVELOPED BY WILLIE CROWTHER.  MOST OF THE
FEATURES OF THE CURRENT PROGRAM WERE ADDED BY DON WOODS (DON @ SU-AI).
CONTACT DON IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, ETC.  

YOU ARE STANDING AT THE END OF A ROAD BEFORE A SMALL BRICK BUILDING.  
AROUND YOU IS A FOREST.  A SMALL STREAM FLOWS OUT OF THE BUILDING AND 
DOWN A GULLY.  

LOOK

SORRY, BUT I AM NOT ALLOWED TO GIVE MORE DETAIL.  I WILL REPEAT THE   
LONG DESCRIPTION OF YOUR LOCATION. 

YOU ARE STANDING AT THE END OF A ROAD BEFORE A SMALL BRICK BUILDING.  
AROUND YOU IS A FOREST.  A SMALL STREAM FLOWS OUT OF THE BUILDING AND 
DOWN A GULLY.  

INFO

IF YOU WANT TO END YOUR ADVENTURE EARLY, SAY "QUIT".  TO SUSPEND YOUR 
ADVENTURE SUCH THAT YOU CAN CONTINUE LATER, SAY "SUSPEND" (OR "PAUSE" 
OR "SAVE").  TO SEE WHAT HOURS THE CAVE IS NORMALLY OPEN, SAY "HOURS".
TO SEE HOW WELL YOU'RE DOING, SAY "SCORE".  TO GET FULL CREDIT FOR A  
TREASURE, YOU MUST HAVE LEFT IT SAFELY IN THE BUILDING, THOUGH YOU GET
PARTIAL CREDIT JUST FOR LOCATING IT.  YOU LOSE POINTS FOR GETTING
KILLED, OR FOR QUITTING, THOUGH THE FORMER COSTS YOU MORE.  THERE ARE 
ALSO POINTS BASED ON HOW MUCH (IF ANY) OF THE CAVE YOU'VE MANAGED TO  
EXPLORE; IN PARTICULAR, THERE IS A LARGE BONUS JUST FOR GETTING IN (TO
DISTINGUISH THE BEGINNERS FROM THE REST OF THE PACK), AND THERE ARE   
OTHER WAYS TO DETERMINE WHETHER YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH SOME OF THE MORE  
HARROWING SECTIONS.  IF YOU THINK YOU'VE FOUND ALL THE TREASURES, JUST
KEEP EXPLORING FOR A WHILE.  IF NOTHING INTERESTING HAPPENS, YOU 
HAVEN'T FOUND THEM ALL YET.  IF SOMETHING INTERESTING *DOES* HAPPEN,  
IT MEANS YOU'RE GETTING A BONUS AND HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO GARNER MANY
MORE POINTS IN THE MASTER'S SECTION.  I MAY OCCASIONALLY OFFER HINTS  
IF YOU SEEM TO BE HAVING TROUBLE.  IF I DO, I'LL WARN YOU IN ADVANCE  
HOW MUCH IT WILL AFFECT YOUR SCORE TO ACCEPT THE HINTS.  FINALLY, TO  
SAVE PAPER, YOU MAY SPECIFY "BRIEF", WHICH TELLS ME NEVER TO REPEAT   
THE FULL DESCRIPTION OF A PLACE UNLESS YOU EXPLICITLY ASK ME TO. 

HELP

I KNOW OF PLACES, ACTIONS, AND THINGS.  MOST OF MY VOCABULARY
DESCRIBES PLACES AND IS USED TO MOVE YOU THERE.  TO MOVE, TRY WORDS   
LIKE FOREST, BUILDING, DOWNSTREAM, ENTER, EAST, WEST, NORTH, SOUTH,   
UP, OR DOWN.  I KNOW ABOUT A FEW SPECIAL OBJECTS, LIKE A BLACK ROD    
HIDDEN IN THE CAVE.  THESE OBJECTS CAN BE MANIPULATED USING SOME OF   
THE ACTION WORDS THAT I KNOW.  USUALLY YOU WILL NEED TO GIVE BOTH THE 
OBJECT AND ACTION WORDS (IN EITHER ORDER), BUT SOMETIMES I CAN INFER  
THE OBJECT FROM THE VERB ALONE.  SOME OBJECTS ALSO IMPLY VERBS; IN    
PARTICULAR, "INVENTORY" IMPLIES "TAKE INVENTORY", WHICH CAUSES ME TO  
GIVE YOU A LIST OF WHAT YOU'RE CARRYING.  THE OBJECTS HAVE SIDE  
EFFECTS; FOR INSTANCE, THE ROD SCARES THE BIRD.  USUALLY PEOPLE HAVING
TROUBLE MOVING JUST NEED TO TRY A FEW MORE WORDS.  USUALLY PEOPLE
TRYING UNSUCCESSFULLY TO MANIPULATE AN OBJECT ARE ATTEMPTING SOMETHING
BEYOND THEIR (OR MY!) CAPABILITIES AND SHOULD TRY A COMPLETELY   
DIFFERENT TACK.  TO SPEED THE GAME YOU CAN SOMETIMES MOVE LONG   
DISTANCES WITH A SINGLE WORD.  FOR EXAMPLE, "BUILDING" USUALLY GETS   
YOU TO THE BUILDING FROM ANYWHERE ABOVE GROUND EXCEPT WHEN LOST IN THE
FOREST.  ALSO, NOTE THAT CAVE PASSAGES TURN A LOT, AND THAT LEAVING A 
ROOM TO THE NORTH DOES NOT GUARANTEE ENTERING THE NEXT FROM THE SOUTH.
GOOD LUCK!


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THX1138
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Re: CP/M and the ZX UNO

Mensaje por THX1138 » 16 Nov 2017, 04:24

desUBIKado escribió:
Vanfanel escribió:What about the Spectrum +3 version of CP/M? Wouldn't it be possible lo load it on the ZX-UNO default core?
Yes, It's possible!!!

http://www.va-de-retro.com/foros/viewtopic.php?t=5605

jump forward and continue from this point:

http://www.va-de-retro.com/foros/viewto ... 40#p103213
I'm having problems with this, it seems a driver is required but I can't download it. It doesn't help that the translation is a bit confusing at times. If I understand it correctly a custom ROM needs to be packaged up and flashed over onto the Uno? That's too scary for me, I tried flashing the Z80 CP/M core over but had no luck with that, I could have been doing it wrong but it's not for the faint hearted!! :D
:teclando..: :zxuno: :okidoki;

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THX1138
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Registrado: 12 Nov 2017, 20:12

Re: CP/M and the ZX UNO

Mensaje por THX1138 » 16 Nov 2017, 23:56

desUBIKado escribió:Hi THX1138:

Yes, there is a Quest's CP/M machine core. Look at this.

You will need a disk image with CP/M 2.2. Download it from this page.

NOTE: The core isn't 100% OK. There are some display problems in applications like WordStar 3.30, but the machine is faster than light :)
I finally got the CP/M Z80 core flashed over! (I was doing it wrong!) I can confirm that the CPM disk image is the same as I used for my Arduino CP/M machine I built. I had the same problems on my machine as they occur on the Uno, these are mostly down to what terminal settings are expected by the program.

I (with help) sourced alternatively configured programs, or more updated programs such as WS4 over WS3. I think these will work for the Uno too, but I don't use images on my CPM computer, it runs on top of the native FAT filesystem. What I will try and do, when I get some free time is use my cpmtools to create a new custom CP/M disk image for the Uno, obviously I'll share that here for everyone.

Thanks for telling me about the CP/M core! :okidoki; :chocala!:
:teclando..: :zxuno: :okidoki;

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